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First 50 posts
Mendham:
Town Stuff:
The Mendham [deer] Massacre:
First 50 posts
     By WhyNotJustStone ThemToDeath on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 7:18 pm: |
This issue has been pretty thoroughly covered in previous years.
first 50 posts (best of)
Through December 28, 2004
10/7/05 blog post
... but there's probably more worth saying. The mayor and council argue in defense of the policy that 500 residents have expressed support for the program. I wonder how many of those residents understood that the culling program was going to rely on crude, and cruel, bow and arrow technology. The simple ugly truth is an arrow-shot seldom causes instantaneous death and most victims have to run around in agony while they wait to bleed to death. We don't impose this kind of death on child molesting serial killers ...why is it appropriate punishment for being a dumb animal, infested with a few ticks, and eating some fancy greenery.
It's hard for me to believe that most people in this town would wish our government to sanction any parallel form of the recreational mistreatment of animals (cockfights, dogfights, etc.) What is unfortunately not so hard to believe is that people have generally become too apathetic to defend choosing the right intelligent solution if it's not the first convenient, stupid, falsely popular, google style answer put on the list. Popularity makes might, and might makes right, and being the mighty-right will make you more popular. It's a circular stupidity trap that has given us the Spammernet, 8 trillion dollars of debt, really stupid wars, and generally made us incapable of dealing with any problem intelligently. |
| By deer slayer on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 7:36 pm: |
| I love deer. They taste so good. HEE HEE |
| By KillAllThe DumbAnimals on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 9:00 pm: |
| I hear a properly bled to death retard appropriately garnished can also make a satisfying meal...tee hee |
| By jamalamading-dong on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
| kill all the f'ing deer....worthless rats with hooves is all they are. |
| By R. DeNiro on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |
| All I can tell you is go on the web and find Mendham on a satilite map ( Google Maps)...look at the lack of open space these animals have and there you have it..right or wrong we have squeezed them out..now we have to deal with them. I say hunt them, for this reason, a bullet in the head is far more humane that starving in the woods or being hit by a car on Rt 24..just my opinion,for the record I an not a hunter but I have witnessed accidents and in one case a fatal human accident caused by a deer. It is time to put aside all this animal rights crap and start looking at human rights.... |
| By Ratacus Weareacus on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
| Can't you fucking 2 legged rats read!!! There's no "animal rights crap" on this message board arguing against "a bullet in the head". In fact the animal rights advocate is arguing for a bullet in the head and against an arrow in the pancreas. The fact at issue is, we don't need to recreationally and cruelly "hunt" deer to eliminate deer as a threat to our health and property. We can do it more affordably, more effectively, and more humanely, by ignoring self-interest sadistic hunters and applying a little common sense to the problem. Deer can easily be lured, and stored, in fenced containment for humane disposal... problem solved without any liability problem, without closing any parks, and without indulging the sick psychology of any 2 legged rats who get their rocks off killing stuff. |
| By Bambi killer on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 8:58 pm: |
It's actually less humane because the deer suffer more stress etc when trying to trap them. Also, it would be nice if they could be shot with guns but that is not possible for a number of reasons in most areas.
So an accurately placed arrow is the easiest, safest and humame way of dealing with a situation that, yes, we have created over the years. But one that must be dealt with. |
| By D.Boone on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 6:31 am: |
| Ratacus Weareacus...Your not from around here are you BOY?... your one of those Amercan hateing commie's ain'tcha?? Why don't you just crawl on back under the rock you crawled out from underneth and rot......WE LIKE KILLING DEER....been doing it for a long time..good eating,good for you.... |
| By 2Bucks SayYouLie on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 8:04 am: |
quote:"deer suffer more stress etc when trying to trap them"
An NRA cult mantra really doesn't make much of an argument... freethinking people apply common-sense mixed with personal experience... Everybody knows that and arrow in the ribs is going to be more "stressful" than a fence in the face. The average Mendham Deer isn't anymore a "wild animal" then the average Mendham horse or cow-- I've seen dogs in town more stressed than our deer... should we shoot them with a government sponsored arrow to put them out of their domestic misery. The simple truth is you can trap deer in this town by leaving your back door open and putting some deer chow on the kitchen table.
As for the pretense that you self-described "Bambi killers" want to do anything but perpetuate the over population problem you're not going to fool a rational person with that lie. It's plain old scientific fact that killing male deer accomplishes next to nothing in controlling overpopulation and yet the town's management policy, contrived by the hunting cartel, allows two bucks for every doe... clearly the policy isn't intended to address the real problem.
As for you Daniel Boone, it is historical fact that it is you who ain't from around here.... so maybe it's you who should go back to your rock cabin....OR if you're going to hang around here you really should learn how to read--it ain't about killing deer-- it's about showing respect for our intelligence and doing it in a civilized, ethically decent, manner. |
| By D.Boone on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 8:23 am: |
| Born and raised here loser...and I will post any way I feel... |
| By Bambi killer on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 9:05 am: |
Well you are wrong on a number of issues. First being the number of bucks that one can kill compared to the number of does. State law allows 1, ONE, buck per season. That is 1 in the fall bow and 1 in the extended season. You MUST shoot a doe before you can take a buck in each season. That buck also MUST have at least 3 pts on one side which allows for the younger bucks to mature and hopefully allow for a more even ratio of bucks to does.
You are also wrong on the stress issue and that doesn't come from the NRA or any pro hunting group. It comes from the biologists etc that work on these issues and have tried the trapping in areas such as Princeton, NJ. In case you are unaware the deer problem is worst there than in Mendham area. In addition to the extra stress, the deer were not able to be trapped as easily as one would think or that the trappers originally thought. They just get smart too fast.
Shy the introduction of cougars, wolves etc., hunting and the automobile are the next best ways to control the overpopulation.
Just take a look at the Mendham Twp program and the progress made in the park areas as well as surrounding areas.
It works. |
| By who cares on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
| It's a little unsafe for bullets to be flying around here --- too many people in too small a space. Arrows are the only safe way to hunt deer in Mendham. Some people like to hunt for sport. What's the big deal? |
| By Another Pink Elephant on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 9:52 am: |
| Improve Hunting Safety: Ban the sale of alcohol for 96 hours before the start of hunting season, should bring the Blood Alcohol Level down to a fairly manageable level for these crackers. |
| By jamalamading-dong on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 10:49 am: |
| hey dickhead....since you probably love the Indians (err..."Native Americans")...maybe you want to re-think your position...last time I checked they killed deer...WITH ARROWS (shocking!!) |
| By TheWideWorld OfBloodSports on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:23 am: |
quote:"State law allows"
News flash moron, state law is irrelevant to this discussion, the subject is municipal policy regarding locally controlled land. I say again, BUCKS are also irrelevant in a battle against overpopulation. You could kill 90 percent of the bucks and have absolutely no effect on long-term population growth. We currently kill one-third of the deer population every year and OBVIOUSLY it hasn't controlled overpopulation.
Regarding trapping: The only deer trap that can fail-- is one designed to fail. If you fence off (8 foot deer netting) an acre of India brook park land --regularly place feed at a funnelled opening and periodically push visitors through the funnel-- in a week or two you can probably contain more deer for a humane disposal than your sick-ass hunters will tortured to death in three months of park closing.
quote:It works.
I see no evidence of that along the stretch of land from the mud hole to India brook park.
quote:It's a little unsafe for bullets to be flying around here.
I think the same goes for arrows-- that's why I've suggested containing deer in areas/traps where they can be safely and humanely disposed of.
quote:Some people like to hunt for sport. What's the big deal?
some people like bullfighting. What's the big deal?
some people like cockfights. What's the big deal?
some people like dogfights. What's the big deal?
some people like to beat their wives. What's the big deal?
some people like to have sex with consenting children. What's the big deal?
etc etc etc.... |
| By WeDoKnowBetter on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
Dickbrain,
Indians were at constant war with each other, routinely sold their daughters, and did lot of other stupid things... because they were ignorant savages. We on the other hand have dozens of CENTURIES of recorded history and knowledge-- and have a responsibility not to insult that hard earned INTELLIGENCE. |
| By Bambi Is A Ho on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 4:13 pm: |
| I blame the Does. Little sluts that they are. After grazing on the lawns of the McMansions they have observed the sexual antics of the local teen girls and in time have acquired the same habits. |
| By link on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 5:04 pm: |
From: White-Tailed Deer - An Ecological Perspective
quote:Scientific studies show that for every animal killed and retrieved, another is left to die a slow and painful death from wounds. The Fund for Animals writes: "Bowhunting is both inhumane and ineffective at solving conflicts between humans and deer. As you can see by the many enclosed scientific studies, bowhunting generally has more than a 50 percent crippling rate. Wounded deer either survive crippled or die slowly over days though blood loss or becoming infested with parasites." The dozens of studies cited by the Fund were conducted by state game agencies. For example: "Langenau (1986) found that archery deer hunters were estimated to have retrieved 43% of the deer hit by arrows."
Veterinarian Steve Nusbaum elaborates:
Consider the broadhead, used by many of America's bowhunters. It has brand and style names such as 'Ripper,' 'Penetrator,' and 'Terminator doublecut.." It is a razor-sharp tip equipped with two or four cutting edges which are screwed into the shaft of an arrow. . . in the arsenal of menacing artifacts employed by the sport hunting community, the broadhead is notorious for its inherent inefficiency and singular capacity to cripple, wound, inflict pain, and prolong the suffering of millions of 'game' animals each hunting season.. . . During the 1985 archery season on the Walter buck wildlife Management Area in Texas, 101 bowhunters fired 86 arrows to seriously wound 11 whitetails without killing a single animal. even [a direct hit to the heart] then, the chances the animal would-be rendered immediately unconscious are almost nil. . . What if an arrow nicks an auricle rather than cuts through both ventricles? How long does it take before induced analgesic shock sets in. . . veins, arteries and nerves run together - hit one and the odds are you'll hit one of the others.
Hunting tabloids advise:
The rule of thumb has long been that we should wait 30 to 45 minutes on heart and lung hits, an hour or more on a suspected liver hit, eight to 12 hours on paunch hits, and that we should follow up immediately on hindquarter and other muscle hits, 'to keep the wound open and bleeding.'
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| By Bambi killer on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 9:18 pm: |
Hey asshole, state Fish and Game law does apply even in local policy. They can not overide it.
Learn something about the law before you try and quote it.
I say again, hunters can only shoot 1 buck per season and in the Mendham area, Management zones 9 & 13, they have to shoot a doe before they can shoot a buck.
I will agree with you on the point of taking does vs bucks. There needs to be a bigger push on to take more of them.
As far as not seeing the results working, I said to check the Twp parklands. After a 7 year wildlife management program the number of deer have been reduced both in the parks as well as the surrounding areas. |
| By LeadInYour BambiSoup on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 1:38 am: |
quote:state Fish and Game law does apply even in local policy.
No it doesn't ~ A "public safety" culling program is not even required to use licensed hunters.
quote:They can not overide it.
yes they can outside of state parks.
quote:Learn something about the law before you try and quote it.
You apparently need to learn something about everything.
quote:After a 7 year wildlife management program the number of deer have been reduced both in the parks as well as the surrounding areas.
As the borough's India brook Park actually borders the Township I think it qualifies as a "surrounding area"-- at 6:00 most any evening you'll find a dozen or so dear grazing a few dozen yards from the Township. |
| By Bambi killer on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 4:53 am: |
I don't believe the Boro wildlife program is not set up through the state as a culling program. If it is you are correct in that they can shoot any deer they see. To do that you need a Community Management Permit from the state which I don't believe they have. That is why they are using vol. hunters.
Without being set up like that, they can't hunt outside the F&G laws.
They can not, overide F&G laws even outside state parks/lands. F&G laws apply even to private property. If they didn't, a person would be able to hunt anytime they wanted. This is not the case. You must go along with the seasons and bag limits set up by the STATE.
You really don't know much about a lot do you? |
| By Thumpers Revenge on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 8:58 am: |
quote:To do that you need a Community Management Permit from the state which I don't believe they have.
I'll certainly ask the question of the council.... but it seems to me semi-irrelevant as I don't think Fish and Game wants to get into any public legal disputes over technicalities with communities making "real" efforts to manage the deer problem fish and game only intends to perpetuate.
quote:You must go along with the seasons and bag limits set up by the STATE.
Don't such limits seem a bit oxymoron-ish as part of a culling program? Seems to me a plan designed to fail.
quote:You really don't know much about a lot do you?
I know a farmer would likely be prosecuted for committing an act of cruelty against an animal if he used a bow and arrow to "cull" his "herd". |
| By $.50 on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 3:48 pm: |
Indians of the world Unite! Gary is calling you savages! How un-P.C. is that (from the King of PC no less)
Kill the dear deer...kill them all..
To quote a Brother: Kill them "By any means necessary." |
| By Civilization or Bust on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 4:59 pm: |
| You morons with a brain the size of a deer's keep trying to imply the existence of a straw controversy (no one here has advocated not eliminating deer) to distract from the simple fact that "hunting" is not the most effective way to eliminate deer, and in turn the deer problem. The fact is, if the decision was mine to make, I would exterminate every deer in the state of New Jersey... the simple truth is we have converted them into farm animals (harvesting one third every year) and yet have not afforded them any of the protections we offer farmed animals. We are gratuitously abusing these animals to placate patently sick sadistic human psychology and we deserve to be likewise consumed by the cruel crude nature we are embracing. |
| By 24 hrs a day on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 5:17 pm: |
ahahahahahaha
now THAT's funny
great ... now Im starvin' |
| By Floyd the Barber on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 6:23 pm: |
| Unleash the Helicopter gunships with infred sighting systems. This would solve two probems A. It would exterminate these rats with horns and B.It would give our gunship crews live moving targets to practice on.This could employed at night in un populated areas...I know I know its nuts...but what the hell if it pisses off the intelectual snobs around here I am happy...hahahahahahaha |
| By bodiddilyyomomma on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 7:36 pm: |
| agreed...we should also try land-mines! |
| By Links on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 8:54 am: |
from: www.deersearch.org/
This subject is seriously serious, but this picture is seriously funny-- kind of the ultimate insult to injury (and death)... getting done over by a dachshund with necrophilia.
Read some of this stuff or this and marvel at the splendor of human civilization. |
| By Anonymous on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 10:19 am: |
| they're just animals you morons. |
| By TheFuture WillPissOnYou~ on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
| And what are humans? ...vegetables? The ability marginalize and ignore the obvious truth (that "animals" can know what fear and pain is, without being able to read Shakespeare.) to justify convenient exploitation--worse recreational exploitation-- Is the cause of most of the horrors of human history and is evidence of continuing cultural retardation. "Intelligence" complicates feelings, but it is not the source of the ability to feel. The concept that dumb animals (or even dumb humans) can be tormented or tortured without meaning, can only find acceptance in a seriously depraved, and functionally (logically) broken mind. |
| By so what on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:36 am: |
fortunately we who are for the hunting/culling whatever .. are the majroity and in charge.
Let the Hunt Continue .. despite the keening and braying of gerry the hapless admin. |
| By here fishy fishy sushi on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:37 am: |
by the way .. hurting those poor little fishies with tags for some forgotton & unsuccessful marketing program would also be cruel ? no ?
(lets hear the rationalization here ..)
what .. you somehow KNOW they feel no pain ?
they enjoy the fishtagging ? |
| By FishSlimy Argument on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 1:52 pm: |
quote:the hunting/culling whatever
Hunting and Culling really are not terms that should be "whatever" interchangeable. There really isn't much point in speaking English in this country if jerks like you are going to Huntbonics the language into mush.
quote:we who are for... are the majroity and in charge.
The electorate's accountability pendulum swings slow and erratically, but it does swing. The simple truth is, no informed majority put your-kind in control. You have power as an accident of a broken Democracy.
quote:hurting ...poor little fishies....also be cruel?
Basic biology allows us understand that animals exist in variety of forms, some primitive, some highly evolved. Generally, most mammals (the order humans evolved from) have a brain that has been specialized, facilitating adaptability by enabling the animal to learn and interact actively with its environment. Other animals like fish are of so durable a design that they have not been driven, by natural selection, to do much evolving and have retained cruder programmed mechanics.
I don't think anyone can answer authoritatively the question of what specifically fish "feel". I think it's clear from all the observable evidence that many primitive animals sense "pain" and appropriately react to that sensation. The question of whether the "pain" has a meaningful conscious reality is certainly open to debate. Personally, I stopped fishing for fun about 10 years ago because "I" was uncomfortable with my own inability to know the truth regarding this question. What I do know for certain is that a deer is not a fish and there is no logical reason to assume they have much in common |
| By see on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 5:07 pm: |
| and a deer is not a human - it is a big rat |
| By MouthAss AndNoBrains on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 8:11 pm: |
Might as well argue with a giant maggot... or am I already.
FYI-- Humans are genetically closer to rats, than deer are to rats. |
| By who cares on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 9:48 pm: |
| FYI .. HUMANS currently rule (despite "broken democracy".. neither Rats nor Deer are close to Humans on the Evolutionary Ladder ... *except maybe to gerry the hapless admin ... |
| By The V Maggot on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 10:56 pm: |
| Correction: Evil Greedy Stupid humans currently rule... stupid enough to use the metaphor of a "branching... ladder" to represent evolution.... stupid enough to think we have no responsibility as rulers to be mindful of the welfare of the "peasant creatures" we rule over... stupid enough to believe that human intelligence has no meaning beyond being a scheming tool to serve the belly of the giant magget...etc. |
| By ho ho ... bill for short on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 5:33 pm: |
ladder is clearly a suitable methaphor for evolution
(implies heirarchy) ... hardly my invention .. consistantly used conventionally
we have a responsibility to cull an out of control creature ... responsibility to ourselves for one .. to them second. they are RATS plain and simple ...
Ill say again ... we the people on our broken democracy are killing them for sport & recreation (a byproduct of the nessecary allowing of this) have chosen this and dont care what you have to say on the matter.
your last sentence is a perfect example of the irrelevant gibberish you spew that has resulted in your complete & total failure and alienation with regard to being Mendham's Webmaster, Garden Clubs' webguy, GRC .., your lawsuit and virtually everything you attempt .... I have tried to coach you to stay on topic .. but all of your pedantry includes "giant maggot" type nonsense ... |
| By Beely The GiantMaggot on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 6:54 pm: |
quote:ladder is clearly a suitable methaphor for evolution
Degreed scientists would likely disagree with that statement at a rate of perhaps 100 to 1. --Evolution is not a ladder
quote:(implies heirarchy) ... hardly my invention .. consistantly used conventionally
According to google branching "tree" is 17 times more offen the convention.
quote:we have a responsibility to cull an out of control creature ... responsibility to ourselves for one .. to them second.
This is straw-man nonsense that has nothing do with the subject-- which is, what is the most responsible and effective way to manage the deer overpopulation problem.(locally and more broadly regionally) I repeat, again, No one on this message board has argued in opposition to killing deer-- the matter of controversy is "how".
quote:they are RATS plain and simple ...
And humans are glorified maggots plain and simple... even if your nonsense was correct, it is still unethical, and rightly illegal, to recreationally kill a rat.
quote:
Ill say again ... we the people on our broken democracy are killing them for sport & recreation (a byproduct of the nessecary allowing of this)
"hunting" is not a necessary or effective management tool. The evidence is quite conclusive that hunting interests (Department of Fish and game) are in fact responsible for creating and maintaining excessive population.
quote:we the people...have chosen this and dont care what you have to say on the matter.
How very American... maybe you can get that line included in the pledge of allegiance. Seriously... "we the people" have not decided the issue-- ignorance and a well organized special interest representing 8% of the population has made the choice.
Regarding your last paragraph which included the "your last sentence" crap: It was a "perfect example" of the desperately cheap argument techniques you resort to because you have no logical ammunition. Clearly my claimed "complete and total failure" is irrelevant to this discussion-- Clearly, detailing how outrageously your accusation offends the truth would require perverting this discussion with extensive explanation irrelevant to this discussion-- Clearly, it is your intention to do just that, because you have no integrity or character, and will cheat, rather than admit the logical failure of your argument. |
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