Hi Gary, how are you?
OK... I sent an e-mail couple of weeks ago to Denise regarding getting some information regarding the town's assets... like um bank accounts and property the town owns
umhum
I was wondering if you'd made any progress?
I don't know I can transfer you over to her.
She said she had forwarded to you the request.
uh--- I don't remember seeing that.
ok... I guess then.. I would like to make the request.
no.. I yes... no, I don't remember seeing--
She sent me an e-mail saying she had forwarded that part of what I had requested... because I requested a list... you know the town had sold some stuff and I had requested a list of that, and some other things.. and she said she had forworded the other part of my request which was about assets to you.
Let me... what specifically are you looking for.
Town assets.. anything the town of Mendham Borough owns.. buildings, property, and what it has in bank accounts.
um, yeah... that's a really unusual request... and... that's a highly unusual request.. um.. I mean you have to be more specific in terms I mean. Do you need.. do you want me to...
The town owns assets... I don't think it's unusual for the public to be able to have access to that information.
but, but.. I know that, but..uh but.. you have to be more specific. you want a list of all the properties the town owns?
All the properties, all the assets that you gain interest from..um yeah.. what the town owns.
You know what Gary you can come in and look at the tax records
Oh we.. a.. a all right I'll file.. you want me to file a lawsuit... you know my disability circumstances here and that's a totally inappropriate thing to say to me.
No No because frankly I don't have the time. I just don't have the time.
Well ok.. look Ralph there was a new law passed in January.. you know about it
I know all about it
The six months is coming right up..
I know all about it Gary
You want me to get a lawyer and we will go through the process.
Gary go right ahead and get lawyer. Do whatever you want to do..but...you know if you..I..Any other person if they wanted a list of the town properties it's right in the tax collectors, tax assessor, book. You could go right in and take a look at it
But that's not what I'm required to do by law. By law I am required to request the information, if it cost you money to copy then that's OK, you send me a bill.. I pay it ..and I get a copy of it. Otherwise if it doesn't cost you any inconvenience you are obligated to provide me the information.
Well also says you have to fill out a form to get the information
You provide the form?
yeah we're going to be setting it up.. the law doesn't take effect until a June... until July-- I am very familiar with the law.
yeah by common law practice..
that's right
...under circumstances right now
And I'm telling you any...
...now I'm allowed to make the request
that's right and I'm telling you if you want the information, if you want the information, on the list of all the properties the Borough owns you can come in and take a look at the tax...
Ok... I'm telling you I'm a disabled person, and I'm asking, I'm requesting, that the town of Mendham Borough under the disabilities act.. Americans with disabilities Act.. to make not an unreasonable effor--an effort I will pay for-- to copy the pertinent information and send it to me.
Put it in writing... put it in writing
Oh ok and thats...
not an e-mail
...ok look look that's fine I am tapeing this conversation.. and that's fine...
put, put, put it in...
..your obligating me.. a..a.. to put in writing what is a simple request that I have made on the telephone
you've got.. you got to be specific
No I don't... spa..spacific.. I said town owns what is more... what is complicated about that?
That.. when you say..
town ownership is complicated?
yeah.. yeah it is.. and.. and you know what Gary if.. if instead of trying to poke me with a stick you would realize that... it's a lot more complicated than that... Do you want every... do you what a list of every single hammer?.. when you say all the assets...
...assets no I said property..
NO, No, you said assets
All right, ok.. you want to consider a hammer an asset?
a hammer is an asset
ummm.. Ralph, I think we know what I was talking about..
No I don't you see... that's the problem Gary.. I don't know what you're talking about.
let's put a minimum value on it, ok.. all assets...
You make these requests and they're so vague we don't know what they are.
I think a reasonable person understands what information I would like to make public... I don't want to make public how many hammers or how many telephones are in the office.
Again I don't know that.. I don't.. that you
I think you do know that.. and.. and..
it is amazing to me Gary that you can get inside my head and you can state...
..oh, oh you were a psychiatrist weren't you?
No, no I was not a psychiatrist
...didn't you tell me exactly what my problem was... and that I wasn't disabled...
No.. no...put it in writing all right Gary. Put it in writing be as specific as you possibly can
yeah put it in writing.. all the spa.sp.. specific enough.. yeah, that I'm not including hammers.
All right, be as specific if you want... a list of land and property that's perfectly fine we can get to that information.
I said those two words.
and but I want you to put it in writing because.. I don't want...
..and financial assets in bank accounts.
and.. and.. I don't know about the bank accounts... I think we can give you the information on how much money we have in reserve. But I don't think you're entitled to the bank account... that's something I don't think you're entitled
Account numbers.. I don't want.. yeah I guess one... and know how much is in a bank-a-count
Ok well we'll..
...the total assets in an account
...allright I will... I will see what I can do about... I am not.. that's a... that is a extremely unusual request. In all the years I have ever worked in municipal government I never.. I have never had anyone come in and ask for...
ha, that's exactly the problem.. No one ever does anything... the media doesn't do anything...
you've got to admit then-- that
You got a sale and you collected at the sale one week's salary of your average police officer... I mean.. you know... because you put it in a legal notice.. I mean.. this is the most inefficient way possible you could come up to sell stuff. What did you do with all the stuff that didn't sell?-- I meant to ask Denise...
We were allowed to dispose of it.
And how was it disposed of?
It was thrown away.
Thrown away... ok.. so when I publish a list of that other stuff...you just through it in the garbage... ok
Which is allowed under Law.
Well that's... I'm not saying what you're doing isn't legal...
...and I don't think you're inflexion
Is it a crime? No
No but the inflexion in your voice suggest that there is something inappropriate going on
There's something stupid going on.. it is stupid in the modern era with digital cameras and e-bay... this is no way for a town to liquidate its assets.
Well you know what then, we need to change the law to allow us to do that... and again you know it..it..
No you need to change the people who were making law... that's what needs to be changed.
Well and that's.. and.. you know what, you may absolutely be right but the way the law works is when we need... when we want.. to sell assets that we're not using any more.. we put a legal ad in, and you sell it at an auction
Right.. and to.. you know what 6 residents of the town.. No less than that 3.. 4 residents of the town, the rest were outsiders... yeah.. it's just it.. whatever... of course I have had problems with the way things have been done in the town since the very start of this whole web page project, and bla, bla, bla.
but.. but..
We know that.. because the town doesn't want to make the information public... We see what you're doing with your web site.. there is nothing there...
but Gary.. but Gary the sale of the surplus stuff is exactly... we did it exactly..
That's exactly the kind of stuff you should put on the Web site. You know that would be the efficient way to do it-- you list the items a month or two in advance... that people know what you've got.. what you're selling.. I mean.. you know.. some of these assets.. Who knows what these things were worth... it's hard to believe that the police could turn a six year-old car into a thousand dollar car... but, you know.. I guess they did
They absolutely did it had extremely high mileage, and was beet up I mean now...
But still.. I just... it's still a 95 car I think I could sell its front bumper for what we got for it... but anyway... regardless
Do me a favor put it in writing-- send it in and.. and.. will.. I.. we well collect the information and send it out to you.
yeah, ok.. so as long as we know that I have to still... even under common law.. put it in writing-- even though we're having this conversation.. so..
yeah.. because.. because again I.. I simply.. it's an unusual request and I don't think... I don't think... it is unusual for me to ask you to put it in writing. I don't think there's anything inappropriate with that-- we don't get people who walk in everyday and say "by the way we want a list of all the bank accounts and how much money you have in them"
If I worked for The Star-Ledger would you give them the information?
a..a.. absolutely, but I would also make them put it in writing.
Ok as long as we know that, so we don't... I would like a copy of all correspondence between you and all media organizations then.. because any information that they publish, that they don't pub... that they publish without formal requests in writing I'm going to object to --because I'm entitled to anything you're gonna give a media correspondent.
I don't think that's true... I don't.. you know what I don't think that's true... I don't think that under the law...
As a resident of the town of Mandham I think it is true.
..well then.. you know what Gary get a lawyer.
That's exactly right
Get a lawyer
I'll.. I'll do what I have to do.
Get a lawyer... but you know what, you're not... you're not.. I don't think a court would say that you rise to the same level as the Daily Record or the.. or the ..Tribune or a.. or the Star-Ledger, or even the Observer. The Observer Tribune
I am a publisher
No I don't think... know what I don't think.. I don't think a court.. I don't think a judge would reasonably say that your web page is equal to that.
Any person is entitled to the information. You cannot discriminate.. you can't discriminate regarding who you're giving information to.
But that's not what you said... that's not what you just said.
No, like I said, what's the difference?
There is a difference
There's no distinction... if you're going to give information that's public information
Put it in writing
..unless it's a private a.. ..a held in confidence
Gary put it in writing and...
Yes ok.. as long as ok.. like I said everyone else is required to do the same thing.
Put it in writing and will.. and and.. and we will go forward from there
Let's make it lets do it the hard way... you know Ralph.. let's just do it the hard way right?
That's right
Right-toe, ok.. as long as you know that's exactly what you are saying.
The polite $80,000+ a year public servant had apparently already hung up the phone.