(Judge Kuskin) I wanted to talk to you because, um... you.... Mr. Mosher you have made a lot of allegations in your complaint but none of them is that you did not receive or purchase the cigarettes in question.

(Plaintiff Mosher) Well I would say that the Constitution does require that I give consent if [well] I'm going to be essentially testifying [well] against myself it has to be through consent you can't monitor my purchases without my consent.

Mr. Mosher the purpose of this phone call was not to deal with the merits of the case. but simply

Oh, excuse me I did not know that.

Uh I simply want to inquire as to whether there --there is this tax amnesty program in effect now that expires June 10th [I understand that] and I don't know whether you're interested in disposing of the matter under that program or not um if you're not fine and if you are I just wanted to call it to your attention

If you can tell me what any compelling logic would be to do such a thing I would like to know it...[you would save interest that continues to run] as I have no penalties attached....excuse me?

You would save interest that continues to run you would save interest which if I determine you are liable for the tax the the interest continues to run.

Continues to run? I don't think it start to run until after this hearing. [No it runs from the day the tax is due.] That's not my a understanding of the documentation I have in my possession. It says the interest is not incurred until my appeal process is complete-- I mean --Oh interest, yes, ok, yes interest that's fine. I a understand that --sorry I was thinking about penalties. My mistake um yeah well right I could have paid the tax [ the other thing is that] when I got the first bill 16 months after my first purchase I could of paid the tax rite than but I thought it was inappropriate to get a bill 16 months-- sorry, not the merits of the case. go ahead

The other thing is that the amnesty law provides that if you're case qualifies for amnesty and you don't take advantage of it there's an additional 5% penalty.

Well I think that's probably unconstitutional to but that's fine.

(Attorney Goldschmidt) Judge I had sent a letter out a few weeks ago to Mr. Mosher just going through some of those things for him

I guess you are all state employes that's for sure [ I'm sorry] I said you're sounding like a state employees sir

All I'm telling you is what the law is Mr. Mosher... [I'm objecting to law on constitutional grounds.] I'm not telling you you should or should not [and yeah you're telling me what the law is I'm not I'm not sure-- you didn't tell me what the law is when the federal government passed a law saying my purchase information was going to be exposed] Mr. Mosher I have no jurisdiction... [you didn't tell me what the law was] I have no jurisdiction over the federal constitutional questions [all these laws you tell me, the laws about amnesty but to inform me about any other law that the Legislature passes] mr mosher [the only one you will tell me about is the amnesty one ok fine.]

The purpose of this call [understood] was to make sure you were aware of the amnesty program [I was sent a letter] if you choose not to use it it's your decision I'm not trying influence you just trying to tell you what...

Well when I'm told by both the lawyer for the state and by the judge in the case number well #1 it's redundant and No. 2 if that isn't pressure I know no what is pressure

Not intended as pressure [well] I was unaware because I did not get a copy of the letter that Mrs. Goldsmith sent you outlineing the amnesty program.

I apologize your Honor

Had I known that we would not have had this telephone call [well that's disappointing]

I apologize your Honor I thought...

Well there's no reason there was no reason for you to send it to me it's really not of concern to me just wanted to be sure Mr. Mosher was aware of the program. [ok] thats the only purpose of a call [it's amazing to me] it is not intended as pressure...

Just amazing after two years of a process and this is.. you know.. so what, when do we get a real hearing 2076?

Mr. Mosher I think we should terminate this call because.. unless you want to put it on the record you can place all of your comments on the record [I am taping the conversation] I'm not going have a conversation with you off the record.

very well ..[sir] when ok

I will set I will schedule a trial date if you take advantage of amnesty Mrs. GoldSchmidt will inform me if you don't [No chance] I will schedule the case for trial at an appropriate time. [right I'll sue you to] [ thank you]

[ok thanks Judge]

You're welcome by-by.

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I'll sue you to.