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Silver Brigade...Right
Mendham:
SILVER BRIGADE:
Silver Brigade...Right
     By brigademyarse on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 7:21 am: |
Silver Brigade, huh? This sounds like an organization for seniors who have gotten all they could from the town while their kids were growing up, but now don't want to pay for anything. Who are you guys kidding? I've seen this attitiude for years, especially when it comes to schools. "What do those kids need computers for? This is costing me a fortune." Things have changed Grandpa. The high tech world is upon us and we have regulated everything to the point that you can't put a swing up without approvals from 10 state agencies. And your generations are the ones that gave birth to these bureaucracies.
Local taxes are where the rubber hits the road...where most of your tax dollar actually benefits your community.
Go play bingo and leave the politicking and decision-making to the people who are in touch with today's issues and care more about the greater good than themselves. |
| By WebsiteDude on Thursday, October 20, 2005 - 6:25 pm: |
Is there some portion of the membership that is guilty of a hypocrisy-- or it least the appearance of hypocrisy... certainly. Should that really make a difference in deciding if you support the mission of the organization... certainly not. I'm a single person, and have no children and up to a few years ago I generally supported all "educational" public spending-- but now I really think spending has gotten out of control, and considering the whole concept of taxing the roof over a person's head, I now support dramatic reform.
In my town we have grammar school teachers making almost $100,000 a year with full family health benefits. The high-school which is paying $2 million in debt service alone per year wants to build $500,000 worth of tennis courts (useful only to a very small minority...at least ball fields have duel purpose). Then there's the whole question of exactly how poorly schools are integrating into the information age-- A full 30 years ago I took a computer programming course (the first year it was offered) and looking at the average school website it seems certain I was learning more then, then high schools are teaching now. This is the information age-- and now education is almost exclusively about motivation as there is substantial independent access to information and knowledge. Its never been easier to be self-taught, but you will see no evidence of that truth being accepted by a bloated teachers' union contriving obstacles to excepting obsolescence.
Having personally examined local government over the past few years-- it's my opinion that it at least is corrupt, stupid, and wasteful as the more often maligned "big government". At least with "big government" there are some watchdogs around to catch some of the shenanigans--local government gets a pretty free ride-- and is usually elected by a very small percentage of the people, largely motivated by special (narrow) interests. |
| By brigademyarse on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
"Is there some portion of the membership that is guilty of a hypocrisy--"
Some portion?...I've seen these people for years, they hide behind "the cause" but it is almost completely selfishly motivated. They never take the time to see exactly what it is local officials are up against when it comes to state and federal bureaucracy. Nothing is as simple as calling a supplier. And when you follow the rules, you end up with irresponsible vendors who end up costing you way more money than if you were just able to hire the right guy because you know his reputation and that it will be done right the first time.
Do we have problems with teacher unions (most of this is blamed on schools, and they are for the large part responsible for the latest significant increases in taxes, the result of dramatic shifts in state aid due to Abbott and resultant court decisions)? Absolutley. The union is a relic that refuses to die. No matter how much damage it inflicts on the economics of this state the teachers will never give it up. Their claims that they need job protection from political whims in their towns are nonsense any more. Labor laws that apply to everyone are ample protection for them from being dismissed for arbitrary and capricious reasons.
But why take that out on kids? If you cut schol budgets, don't worry, it won't be the teachers who suffer. They're getting theirs. The kids do with less.
More effectively, we need to fund schools differently. The Legislature can change this with a special session but haven't the political courage to tackle the issue (union influence, anyone)? Rather they wave the tempting but feckless solution that is the Constitutional convention. A smokescreen that deflects the respnsibility elsewhere.
Don't run this "The seniors (Silver Brigade)are just being responsible citizens" crap by me. They are certainly acting from self interest. The heroes are the local folks who take on these ridiculous bureaucracies and make the best of it for their towns because they have pride and really care about the community. The shame shold go to the legislators who will not change the system.
My fight is not he same as the so-called Silver Brigade's. They take their selfish anger out on the only budget they control ... the school budget, when they should be shaming their legislators into acting and not just driving around and ponitificating and impressing us all with their legislative vanity plates. |
To Brigademyarse:
I'd like to suggest that you attend an upcoming SB meeting - Tuesday night we're hosting the two Freeholder candidates at the Riverview School in Denville, 7:30PM or the next regular membership meeting is Dec. 3rd at 10:00Am at the Denville Senior Center.
You make some very good points but also have some misconceptions about our group - we're not all seniors, some are in their 20s and I haven't spoken to any who hate kids. I have two school age myself.
Unfortunately in our politically correct society it's become too easy to post our inner thoughts anonymously on bulletin boards and chat rooms when we'd be much more effective by standing up at a public meeting and expressing them sincerely. Who knows I expect there are others among us who might feel exactly as you do. Doesn't matter though, so long as you're able to respect other opinions you'd be more than welcome.
Alternatively, email me directly jcantrel@optonline.net or give me a call 973 252 9274.
We're always looking for new members with the courage to get involved in solving the current mess.
Regards,
Jerry Cantrell |
| By Weberizer on Sunday, October 23, 2005 - 9:59 pm: |
Brigademyarse,
In my opinion, your excessive, and kind of rude, emphasis on the hypocrisy you perceive to exist in an effort to malign an entire organization--indicates that you might be motivated by a special or hypocritical interest[?]. The silverbrigade has a clearly articulated platform and I don't see any point in arguing with irrelevant motives. Do you respect the motives of everyone in your political party? In the real world we all have to make compromises and sleep-with-the-devil so to speak to create coalitions that have the power to get something done. That's just life in this all or nothing democracy-- if you're for change than there's no point in kicking the imperfect horse that might carry that load halfway up the hill.
quote:But why take that out on kids?
That's the the same line used by the union extortionists.... and its Pollyanna red herring mush no matter who utters it. Quoting myself "The education industrial complex is given 12 years to inspire a thirst for knowledge-- on average, all it produces is intellectually lazy, fluffed brained goof-offs, with a thirst for alcohol." In the information age "publicly financed" education should have one primary focus-- to endow children with enough literacy (including technical knowledge) to be able the capitalize on the abundant information/knowledge available. Instead these public "institutions" waste the substance of their budgets on nonsense like "sports" or the "arts" that isn't anything the public should be obligated to subsidize. Once past grammar school literacy--schools should be scaled down and specialized with the bulk of the "work" (educating) taking place in their own home or neighborhood. Institutionalizing students is an archaic holdover from a time when geography set the rules-- that time is over-- we should just admit it now and move immediately into the more efficient future.
quote:they should be shaming their legislators
Doing That... But school boards are just as deserving |
| By brigademyarse on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 6:49 am: |
we're not all seniors, some are in their 20s and I haven't spoken to any who hate kids.
Mr. Cantrell,
While I have no doubt that there are a few young people who have registered for your organization, I guarantee if I did a demographic analysis it would skew way into the retired, senior citizen end of the spectrum. And I'm not accusing anyone of hating kids...I'm saying the grand majority of folks this age loathe parting with any money for anyone but themselves (call it "child of the depression" frugal or just plain cheap).
the next regular membership meeting is Dec. 3rd at 10:00Am at the Denville Senior Center.
Look at where you meet and the time. No one who works regular hours could attend this. And look at where you hold it for God's sake. It's a seniors organization. Let's call a spade a spade. You see, that's my problem. You guys are not being honest about who you are. If you would would call yourselves "Small-minded Selfish Seniors," and described your mission as an "I got mine, you get yours, NIMBY, why should we pay for something we can't use" organization I'd have more respect for you.
"The education industrial complex is given 12 years to inspire a thirst for knowledge-- on average, all it produces is intellectually lazy, fluffed brained goof-offs, with a thirst for alcohol." In the information age "publicly financed" education should have one primary focus-- to endow children with enough literacy (including technical knowledge) to be able the capitalize on the abundant information/knowledge available. Instead these public "institutions" waste the substance of their budgets on nonsense like "sports" or the "arts" that isn't anything the public should be obligated to subsidize.
The guy who wrote this is at least more honest about what he feels than you guys are. He's an idiot, but he's honest.
I DO NOT LIKE THE PRESENT SETUP FOR FUNDING SCHOOLS JUST AS YOU DO NOT. AND I LOATHE MUNICIPAL OFFICIALS WHO USE THEIR INFLUENCE TO LINE THE POCKETS OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FRIENDS.
However, just because I can vote on a school budget (unlike any other government budget), I'm not going to take my anger out on kids and programs they need to get ahead in this world.(By the way, I hope you are not trying to tell me that this moron isn't misguided about education and kids.)
This knuckle head should know that only a fraction of a school's budget is dedicated to athletics (a vital part of kids' educational experience) and the arts. It's the only place where we can guarantee that kids are exposed to things they could get nowhere else in society were it not for the schools providing it.
Some day, I will show up at one of your meetings. And I'll make my arguments. But having made these arguments in the past, I know the response will be a thud as they they bounce off the foreheads of some small minded silver haired citizens and hit the floor like a brick. Nothing's gonna sink in. |
| By brigademyarse on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 6:51 am: |
| My bad on the date...Dec. 3rd is a Saturday. But the point about the Senior center is still there. |
| By 2... on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 5:10 pm: |
brigademyarse,
You want to exchange insults that's OK ...you pompous moron-- but let's not pretend that persuades anybody but illiterate idiots who probably aren't reading obscure SB fourm posts. It seems to me pretty obvious that the Silver Brigade is pretty honestly named so your implication that the organization has a hidden membership or agenda is just a cheap slander. You seem to think anyone with a personal interest shouldn't have a politically relevant voice... Applying your standard shouldn't we also rag on all these people who "choose" to have kids and then think they have a right to "force" everyone else to pay for them.
As for your preposterously inaccurate contention that "sports" and "art" related nonsense don't consume a huge portion of school budgets-- common sense says otherwise-- as do budget figures. A couple of years ago our regional high school spent over a million dollars on a music room... they want to spend $500,000 on tennis courts... then consider the expense of the in-house gymnasiums and theaters and the cost to maintain acres of outdoor sports facilities. The simple truth is there is plenty of out of school opportunity to engage in athletics and other non critical "educational" activities. And I reiterate, that trend toward independent learning and specialization has been substantially accelerated by the "information age".
As a pointed out before the Silver Brigade does not have a hidden agenda and their activities and proposals are wide open to the public. If you don't agree with their agenda, don't join, and argue against that agenda... but if your only argument is to attack motives from an anonymous position of hidden motives, then that just makes you a cheater in my book. The bottom line is the brigade is fighting unfairness and excesses in the financing of both schools and municipal governments (property-taxes)... in my opinion the inefficiencies are substantial and there really is no time to waste, or point in "picking nit" with you. |
| By 10... . . . . . on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 8:18 pm: |
You call me illiterate yet you think that it is not worth the expense to expose kids to sports or art? Oh, man. And you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to education or school budgets. (No I don't work in education. Blows your hidden agenda theory, huh?) FYI I spent some time in your camp, especially when related to schools. But, I did my homework. I know the constrictions these folks work with and it ain't pretty.
As for your tennis courts and theaters, yes they cost a lot. Were it not for our state regs, they'd probaly cost half of what they do. They also serve the community as a whole in most towns, with outside events being permitted to use them, also as emergency shelters. (No obviously that's not what makes them worth building, but the point is schools in many places are the center of the community, especially in those towns that don't have as much as Mendham.)
Tell the musicians who started their love of music in school that there is no need for it in public education. Or the countless fine actors and actresses who found their outlet and their passion in school theater. Or the state champion fencers who can't afford private lessons out there in Mendham and never would have known about the sport were it not for it being offered in their school. When's the last time you saw a pickup football game with full equipment and referees? Opporunity you don't get anywhere else is available in public schools.
As for your independent learning theory, when you delve into the Internet searching for knowledge, if you don't have the context to understand and sort out the real and the phony in what you find, you might as well make the stuff up yourself. Where's that context come from? School.
I'm not saying the Silver Brigade as an organization is working on a hidden agenda. But many individuals are looking at it from a purely "I don't want to to pay more taxes for anything mentality." What I'm saying is that when people become part of a community, kids or no kids, they are bound to support the community in a number of ways. Shoveling snow off their sidewalks, at least minimally keeping up their homes, recycling, and yes, supporting schools. To turn your back on the school part of it once your kids are out, or to begrudge kids modern equipment and facilities because you wrote on stone tablets and your wooden school house burned coal for heat, is selfish and small-minded. If you don't like the way schools are funded, tell the guys who decide how they're funded. They're the only ones who can fix it. Don't take it out on your local district. They are doing the best they can with a broken system. |
| By 2....... . on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 11:56 pm: |
quote:You call me illiterate
No...what I said was the "reader" would have to be an illiterate moron to be persuaded by name calling.
quote:I know the constrictions these folks work with and it ain't pretty.... They are doing the best they can with a broken system.
What's constrained is their imagination and what is broken is their agenda. You can keep ignoring it... but I'm going to keep saying it.... Education is about motivation. The simple truth is, if you want to know, 99% of the time you can know (with the bizarre exceptions like the average school board which doesn't keep records of its meetings and won't answer questions). I think it's a guaranteed fact that a hundred years from now (if we survive the stupid terrorism wars) we won't be institutionalizing children to educate them ...and we are just wasting time holding back that future.
quote:If you don't have the context to understand and sort out the real and the phony in what you find, you might as well make the stuff up yourself. Where's that context come from? School.
The context I learned in school was, most of the time, absolute rubbish... take history for example I was taught the propaganda that George Washington was the father of our country and that Ben Franklin was just some eccentric inventor. The actual truth is George Washington was a horrible elitist who hated his peasant troops and who would have been the father of failure is Ben Franklin hadn't gone to France and persuaded them to bankrupting their country to strike a blow against the English empire. Then there's the whole "tea party" that I was school to believe was about excessive taxation when in fact it was cheaper English subsidize tea that floated in the harbor... it was a trade war, not a tax revolt. Then consider how the educational industrial complex perverts science by enforcing the misguided notion that physics, chemistry, and biology are "different" subjects. In my opinion, investment in this false notion corrupts the learning process and might explain why the average high-school graduate can't engineer escape from a paperbag.
As for the Internet its only operating at something like 10% of its capacity. With a national investment not much greater than the money wasted in one school budget we could provide the rational internet navigation (navigation not driven by marketing and money) that would make it possible to circumvent all the commercial and informational spam. Also, economical videotape has been around for 30 years now (audiotape a bit longer) ...but can I go to the video Store or library and access a medical lecture for example? the answer is no... not because it can't be done, but because "the educational industrial complex" won't allow public investment in permanent (onetime cost only) methods of education. Knowledge is being held for ransom, and we keep paying/rewarding the extortionist.
quote:Tell the musicians who started their love of music in school that there is no need for it in public education.
I would argue that most of the "best" at anything don't have much good to say about the time they wasted being institutionalized as a youth. There's a lot of stories like this.
quote:When's the last time you saw a pickup football game with full equipment and referees? Opporunity you don't get anywhere else is available in public schools.
Haven't you heard of Little League and peewee football... as soon as you stop wasting public money on this nonsense, if there is real demand, supply will be provided, and more honestly paid for by the idiots who see purpose in this nonsense.
quote:begrudge kids modern equipment and facilities
In my opinion you are "begrudging kids" the realization of their potential to be knowledgeable, informed, and wize human beings when you cloister them in patronizing institutions that teach little more than simplistic dogma and mindlessly encourage pointless distractions. The proof of your systems colossal failure is revealed in every national survey of the "educated" public's understanding. 90 % will say they believe in angels and that same 90% won't know why water boils or how airplanes fly. Public education is a disgraceful failure and a disgraceful waste of money that I think would be wiser spend on community projects that teach by doing and actually create something of lasting value in the process. It's kind of a pitiful reality that workshops in prisons are probably doing more worth while educating, under very adverse conditions, than your preposterously overfunded schools. |
| By 10... . on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 8:40 am: |
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